Jay (dragonite) wrote in gwmuck,

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Important Notice:

As some of you may already know, I will be retiring from my position on Gundam Wing MUCK soon. My lack of time and interest in the genre has taken its toll, so I believe that it would be better for someone else to take the reigns. n_-; While this is the case, I have previously decided to have the place running in the hands of the current staff and whoever they will choose to follow in their wake.

However, it has been brought to my attention that a good friend of mine wishes to use the webspace to create a Rurouni Kenshin MUCK, seeing as Gundam Wing MUCK doesn't have a notably active population. And.. this is what I would like to discuss in this post.

When I leave, issues regarding the MUCK will no longer be of effect to me. Yet, as you are the players, regardless of my control over the slot it would only be fair to get your opinions on this. Either:

1) The MUCK will continue to run as planned.

2) The MUCK will be shutdown, and Rurouni Kenshin MUCK will take its place. Seeing as it's a popular genre, there's a good chance that it will work out. In the event that this does follow through, there will be enough time before the MUCK's closure to obtain the contact information/descriptions/programs that people may wish to save.

And with this said.. your comments are more than welcomed. Every thought counts. n_n;

-- j00|2 Retiring Evile MUCK Coordinator
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Personally, I don't like RK. Of course, I've only seen the OVA, so I'm not much to talk. But I'd go with keeping GWMUCK. (AKA choice #1)

<3 Shentian

I don't know, I don't think there's enough interest in the Gundam W genre to really keep the MUCK going right now. Most of the wizards are disinterested and feeling a bit burned-out. I'm in favor of giving the proposed RK theme a chance.

This is not to say that I don't like this MUCK, as I've had some of my best MU*ing experiences here, and have met some very important people here who are quite dear to me. I'll miss it, but there's always logs to look back upon. Perhaps one day there'll be enough interest again to make a Gundam W or related MUCK a worthy endeavor, but for now a change of theme is probably a much better use of the space. Making a MUCK successful isn't an easy task by any means, and you need plenty of interest - from both staff and players - to make it work.

So in short, if this does go through, Gundam W will be missed, but I think that a change in genre will most likely make for a much more successful, enjoyable, and server space-worthy MUCK.

- Yu


October 21 2002, 15:34:59 UTC 14 years ago

This topic... What can I say? I've been on GW for quite a while, longer than I care to mention. I've seen a lot happen and I have fond memories there. This is one of the few MUCKs I actually have RPed on. This place has a lot of sentimental value to me, and even though I may not be the most active member of the character base, I still love the MUCK. I don't want to even think about it being gone... *Sigh* I remember when Scott's old ZM went down. Losing it was a sad occasion, but I still had good 'ole GW to hang around. That made me feel a little better... But if GW is taken away and replaced by this 'Rurouni Kenshin MUCK', where will I go? I don't know anything about RK, so I wouldn't be much of a help there... A good server is hard to come by these days, I understand, which is why I'd not like to lose this one.
Ah, but enough of my rambling. All I really want to say is that I'm for #1. Keep the MUCK the way it is. We shouldn't give up on it so easily.

~Our lives change like the weather, but a legend never dies...~


October 21 2002, 16:48:31 UTC 14 years ago

Well, I'd really hate to see GW go. There've been some good RPs and really well-developed characters there.

Unfortunately, most of the well-developed characters seem to be in rather tight-knit groups. So newbies find it hard to join in and RP tends to sputter and die if members of the group aren't around. This is something that'd need to be fixed if GW were to work. There'd also need to be some kind of overarching plot that the players could participate in - and work by the staffers to help players fit their characters into the plot. The plot of Gundam Wing, as good as it is, just isn't going to work for that. There's no room for anyone other than the Gundam pilots and other in-show characters to shine there.

Y'know what? There are several RK MUCKs out there... Why add another one when the GW MUCKs are few? I say that GW should be kept running. School has taken up most of my time, so I can't really RP on it... But! GW MUCK has been up for a long time... Why stop?

I know some of you are disagreeing, saying that there should be an RK MUCK in its place. So... Why not fifty-fifty? Half Gundam, Half RK? It's a crazy thing, but it might work...


Otherwise, I cast my vote for Gundam!

Many RK mucks? e_e Name 'em.. I've never seen any. And I've looked.


October 21 2002, 16:55:47 UTC 14 years ago

Keep it. I haven't a clue what this 'Rurouni Kenshin' is, and, personally, I don't care to find out. I've been on GWM for a few years; it's given me some of the best RP I've ever had. I love my characters, and my friends' as well. I've already lost one MUCK I loved, and I don't plan to lose another. If I was to lose this one...I'd be upset beyond words. My friends and I have had wonderful RPs here. Please...don't destroy it.
That was rather rude. o_O
Also.. I dunno how you could have possibly been on there for years since the Muck hasn't been there that long.


October 21 2002, 17:02:16 UTC 14 years ago

Honestly, I have no clue where to begin with this post, as I am not used to speaking publicly. I do know, however, that I an wholeheartedly -NOT- in favor of a theme change of this MUCK. Many times I have heard things such as, 'you're just a staffer', or 'you haven't been here long enough'. I have been on this MUCK for over a year and a half, and have seen more than enough to fortify my feelings toward this subject.
First off, as a good friend of mine has already stated, this MUCK has a great deal of sentimental value to me and many of my close friends. The same as with the late Zelda MUCK... We were willing to rebuild it, but we did not have that chance. No offense, but I know most of people in favor of this change come from the staff of Pokemon Neo MUCK. After all the hard work time you've put into that place, wouldn't you feel at least a little upset if someone tried to take that away from you? If we, as the most loyal players of this MUCK, are willing to revitalize this place and make it thrive once more, shouldn't we be given that chance?
Like I said, I've put over a year of my time into developing my character, as well as many other players of this game. He's become one of my favorites to play, and it would feel like all of this was a waste if the theme is simply wiped out, as has been suggested. They would not simply fit into another theme, and it is often hard to organize such RPs elsewhere. I have also considered making anew GW MUCK. But servers are incredibly hard to come by these days, and I lack the finances to acquire one.
So, why should many loyal players be forced out of a game, when they are fully capable of running it? I know many members of the staff are 'burnt out', or simply don't connect anymore. But I know many who would be willing to fill their roles. I know reviving a MUCK of this theme would be difficult, as many have put it, but wiht the proper determination of the staff and hard work, it could be pulled off. Who knows? The new theme could end up being worse off. I admit I know nothing of the new suggested theme, but everything has the possibilty of suffering the same fate.
So, my vote is for keeping AC195 Gundam Wing MUCK up and running as planned. I know the final decision is up to Scott, and that it's a very close fried who made the request. Nevertheless, it would be leaving many loyal players once again stranded, with no place to go. With the proper methods, Gundam Wing will not suffer the same fate as ZeldaMUCK.

PS: Sieg Zeon. u_u


October 21 2002, 17:44:09 UTC 14 years ago

Aww.. You guys! Not -another- MUCK getting shut down! Well, okay, so it's not getting shut down.. Just.. Well, changed. Okay, so I have to admit.. I'm not one of those loyal players on GW MUCK. But I'm a close friend to someone who is! To be honest with you, I haven't even watched the show.. Or heard anything about it until I met him.. But then again, I haven't even -heard- of the new theme that you want to change it to.
Though, either way, I suggest you keep the GW theme.
The only problem is that there's not enough RP! All you need is a more dedicated staff team to get it up and running again! And that sound be -too- hard to find. After all, I would apply for a position myself!
It won't take that much to get GW MUCK started up again.. So why not try and see the result of a little effort first?

~ Jillian
I don't mean to be rude... but its not really your place to comment on something you don't know about. You don't know the whole story, or both sides of it. So please stay out of it? n_n
First, to Schwingpunk, I know what you mean. The OVA was weird and.. well, just weird. The TV series, however, was ten times better and not as confusing. Now, onto the big topic here. Now, you need to know WHAT Rurouni Kenshin is. The show is basically about Kenshin Himura and a lot of people he meets while living in the Meiji Era of Japan, which lasted from 1868-1912. The show takes place in 1878, 10 or 11 years after a country-encompassing Revolution took place. Imperialists won over traditional Japan. So now we have a world caught between warriors, samurai with nowhere to go, and unseated lords, and the invading Western cultures and shifty politicians. Kenshin is an ex-manslayer from the war now turned wandering samurai who, well, helps people. He does a lot of that with the help of a handful of other main characters. This mostly takes place in Meiji Era Tokyo, but there is a much greater world outside of there that's visited throughout the episodes.

Now that you know the what, here's the why. Or, in other words, my own opinion. This is my opinion. If you don't like it, tough noogies. I like GW MUCK. I've been around since almost the very beginning of it. For those who don't know, I am Vi. I have had so many RPs on GW that were memorable and enjoyed and I've met a lot of wonderful role-players, but, as sad as it is, GW is dying, which I'm not too happy about, either, and the theme itself does not have much room to grow.

Those who do connect, as I've seen, are either idle or tend to stay in small, tight-knit groups. Guests don't see any action happening so they don't get characters, and those that do get them more or less don't find RP. The Gundam Wing theme confines everyone to a specific timeline that centers around the actions of the FCs, FCs which don't connect often, save perhaps for one or two. The admin are, as it's been said before, "burnt out", too busy, or just not there anymore, save for two or three of them. I don't know if getting new staff will have much change.

As unfortunate as it is, nothing lasts forever. Change is a fact of life.

I think that Rurouni Kenshin idea is a fair one and has a good chance. From what I've seen, there's a large fan following and, while the theme would be based on an anime just like GW is, it wouldn't be as restrictive.


October 22 2002, 13:56:09 UTC 14 years ago

It doesn't matter how great you think a series is people. What matters is what the players want and are willing to roleplay. Yo staff? You run the MUCK. While playing IS a priveledge, if you're really dedicated to providing a good roleplay enviroment, you'll go along with what players want. I'm sorry, but for the group involved here, Pneo is the one real success. No one seems to have had the patience to get Zelda MUCK, Star Wars MUCK, and GW off the ground. If you STUCK to it, sure you could. But you don't.

What makes you think you can make this one work?

I do understand that Rurouni Kenshin has a large fan following. Yet how many are you willing to bet roleplay well? How many would even be interested? Don't give me reasons on 'I think'. Pull up facts, go out an survey. ASK people! Public opinion should be number one. If you want all this set YOUR way, on your own individual rules, that's what private roleplaying and AIM are for.

Um... Hello. c_c This is what the LJ post is for. We ARE asking you guys. DUH. o_O Obviously public opinion is important to us. If it wasn't, this wouldn't be here. Would you rather we just shut down the muck and not say anything at all? No... I think not. Slamming someone's like of a series is kinda low... I mean. The same can be applied to the muck. It doesn't matter how much you like the muck, it doesn't mean it will be a success. Which it hasn't been. Its been a disappointment. The players aren't the sole say here either. Its a 50/50 thing. After all.. we the staff put the effort into making this place for you, we have the right to take it away, and Scott's been kind enough to put this topic up for discussion. You have no right to criticize the staff. Yes... playing on a muck is a privelidge as you said. And you should treat it like one.. not as a right, and have a little more respect for the people who created it. And a little more respect for opposing opinions. Although I'm the one that wants to change the muck, I can understand how you people feel. I've mentioned that before. We're not cold, heartless people bent on making you unhappy.

Actually, Star Wars MUCK didn't go go down due to a lack of 'patience'. The server it was being hosted on isn't stable, and the game kept crashing.

And the same goes with GW. It was off the ground, but interest in the game has declined to the point that it really isn't worth keeping the game going anymore. I don't see the players willing to RP that you mention. The MUCK has already been given several chances, but there just isn't enough interest to make it successful.


October 22 2002, 15:33:40 UTC 14 years ago

By public opinion, I meant by surveying the public, not just the current GW playerbase. :> Check out other anime MU*s, and do research. Nor is it meant in a nasty way, which you appear to have taken it. And please, refrain from saying again 'Would you rather we just shut down the muck and not say anything at all?'. It distracts from this discussion and flamebaits. While I suppose the staff can do whatever the heck they please, including taking away an MU*, that does not mean it's right. When you say that the shutdown of GW is a 50/50 chance, doesn't that mean we're effectively screwed? With the exception of a few, the staff who have spoken appear to have made up their minds in stone. Maybe I'm chipping at a mountain, but hey.

Interest in GW hasn't declined, people don't know that this MUCK is even here for the most part. Large-scale revival is possible, but it requires work and cooperation. Nuking and starting over from scratch to likely end with the exact same scenario doesn't sound like a good path to take. Gundam Wing really for the most part appears to have just kind of been...well, left there. And this is from a player point of view.

For the time being, I'd say keep the MUCK, and organize it's revival with more than the staff. With the players too. We at least have everything here built. There isn't as much waiting on rooms and places for things to happen to be built. There's a theme, rules, the game board is set and all we need are the players.

I'm hoping you realize that this MUCK is way more than a ghost town if you've got people, even if only a handful, defending it as they do.

I've never really been interested in Rurouni Kenshin, so I, personally, wouldn't be playing if the game shifted themes. However, I'll support Scott if he chooses to turn the game over; after all, firstly, it is his space, and, secondly, the game is dead in the water.

I admit I'll miss playing Quatre enormously. I don't think I did a very good job playing him, and I have to say I can't blame anyone who wondered how on earth I got the spot n.- I certainly wasn't nearly as active as I ought to have been; still, I've had some of the best RP I ever had on the MUCK.

At the same time . . . well . . . the game was probably doomed from the start by the plot. Gundam Wing is a wonderful show, and a philosophical show, but its storyline is both difficult to RP around and heavily restricting. Characters are too thinly spread over a large area. Sheesh, I've been stuck with Quatre in the Sahara since June, 2001 - and there's not many valid excuses for either him to leave or other characters come visit.

So, I'll miss it - but I'll support a change.


October 22 2002, 16:00:02 UTC 14 years ago

Well, I have one more point to make, because nobody seems to be bringing this up, and it's starting to bug me. As far as plots go, Kenshin and Gundam Wing seem one in the same, at least to me. I've listened to all of your descriptions, and it seems to be the same basic scenario. An empire that has just won over the traditional ways of the world, leaving few warriors stranded with nowhere to go. OZ and the rebels, perhaps? Gundam Wing didn't explore the rebels as in depth as it should have, but that is why so much felixibility is offered by the series. OZ is indeed strong, but there is no way they could wipe out all groups of rebels within the Earth Sphere. This is even shown in traditional Gundam series as well, with the Zeonic Rebels even bunkering up in mineshafts for years, fighting guerilla wars. And, as for the warrior Kenshin and his handful of helpful friends that the show's based around... The Gundam pilots? Heero and the others are in pretty much the same boat. So, I really wish the argument over how vastly different the themes are would end. It seems to just be a case of katanas and beam sabers.
However, Gundam Wing could indeed be revived. Just make afew little changes here and there along the plot, and things would work out. Instead of the Gundams wiping out anyone who sees them, have them go on missions to aid their fellow rebels. Heck, you could even balance out the OZ/Rebel ratio, given the Rebels better footing for attacks. The options are endless, if you just try.
PS: Feddies are -WEAK-! u_u
No offense Knux.. but GW and RK are -vastly- different. n_n; One being that GW is very serious... and RK is a lot more lighthearted. But yeah.. you have to watch RK to know what we really mean. -_n Its not easy to discribe.
Plus what you're describing as 'endless posibilities' is going out of canon. Something I don't encourage. -_n


October 22 2002, 16:25:51 UTC 14 years ago

Going out of canon is what MUCKs are FOR. What're we supposed to do, recreate just the Gundam Pilots and the individual characters from the series? Going out on a limb, coming up with new or even alternate story lines is part of what fandoms are. Just look at all the ideas and even new worlds created in the fanfiction alone.

Ah... but see. Neo is in canon. And as you yourself said, its been successful. There's been off canon TPs and such, but going way off canon isn't something I particularly like. And no it isn't what mucks are for. Mucks are a chance to play in the enviroment of a certain series, or be the character of a certain series. A GW Muck that stays in canon reasonably can't be successful. And if GW Muck stays around, it won't change to an out of canon muck.


October 22 2002, 16:42:01 UTC 14 years ago

You're missing the point, nor is it going that far off canon. How is focusing on the Rebel faction(Which is overlooked. Rebel characters have great promise!) uncanon?



14 years ago


14 years ago


14 years ago

Well, I just got notified of this in the past oh.... 30 minutes. I have also only scanned the comments above. However, for the sake of what it is worth, I wish to say my peace on this matter.

Firstly, personally, I like Kenshin. Awesome Anime. Awesome Plot. Cool Setting. But, frankly, I don't think it would make a good MUCK. Nothing against the genre. However, from the perspective of someone who has been a Head WIZ herself for 4 years, and on wizard staff of some sort for about 7 years now, I'm not sure a Kenshin MUCK would do very well.

You see, there are these things called players who all want to be someone important. And in the genre of Kenshin, there are only a very limited number of people who have any sort of important role. Everyone else in the anime is a bit character like the Waitresses at the restaurant or like the Yakuza (gang guys) whose only role is to be beaten up. Of course, you could be the evil Meiji government, but who wants to be a bad guy? Lessie, I can count only a few main characters in the setting.

Earlier in the comments I noticed something about how there are places in Gundam Wing MUCK that aren't canon. That happens on a MUCK. You just need to accept it. Granted you don't have to take stuff like fuzzles attacking or wierd junk like that, but, hey, imagine a Kenshin MUCK with like 30 or 40 Kenshin clones and one pitiful little FC Kenshin who may or may not be on and that half of us will never get to play with because he's playing with just a few other FCs. And... well, that's the reality of the situation. Nothing personal. I've been an FC myself too often to really slam any other FCs.

I'd say, that at least in the case of a Gundam Wing MUCK, there are more places for people to become important and have great, interesting characters that do not affect the 'canon' plot as it is so worshipped. ;)

Secondly, and this is entirely a personal opinion. I have zero desire to play on a Kenshin MUCK. Like I said before, I like the series. I like the whole thing. I worship Kenshin. I may get slammed for this, but I like Kenshin more than Gundam Wing. But Kenshin is not for MUCK. It was never meant to be a MUCK. Nor do I wish to play a bit character on a Kenshin MUCK. I'm one of those pitiful people who is so obssessed with roleplay that I couldn't possibly create a Kenshin or Kaoru clone. However, I do want to play a Gundam Wing MUCK. Gundam Wing has more accessiblity to no name, not FC characters than many other anime genres.

Thirdly, I have seen MUCKs in much much worse condition than Gundam Wing MUCK. There is still hope for the place with the right effort and the right thought put behind it. If someone takes this place over, it will require us who still want this place to stand firmly behind that person until things are fixed, and then for as long as we possibly can.

Anyhow, I will stop ranting now and just let some of this settle in...

- Vickie/Relena